MyWiki:WikiProject Highways/Assessment/A-Class Review/Ridge Route

Ridge Route

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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{{Wikipedia:Featured article tools|1=Ridge Route}} Ridge Route (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) review

Suggestion: Demote from A-Class

Nominator's comments: Actually, I don't think the article should probably be demoted, per se. There's some opportunities here to bring this article up to modern expectations of a FA for USRD. I anticipate that with a little collaboration, this article can be improved and retained in its current status.

Nominated by: Imzadi 1979 → 15:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

First comment occurred: 17:07, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Comments by Dough4872

Comments by Dough4872

1. We should add {{infobox road}} to the article to show the termini and major intersections of the route before it was bypassed.

   Done. --Rschen7754 08:24, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

2. The lead should be expanded to provide a decent summary of a description and history of the route.

   Done. --Rschen7754 06:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

3. The sentence "Near the north end of this area, the Ridge Route curves away from the newer bypass." needs a citation.

   Done. --Rschen7754 04:32, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

4. Citation needed for the sentence "A number of establishments were located in the forest, including the National Forest Inn, Kelly's Half Way Inn, Tumble Inn, and Sandberg's Summit Hotel."

   This just sets up the next few paragraphs; don't think this is needed. --Rschen7754 03:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

5. I don't see the reason for coordinates to be included in the prose. We do have a KML for the article.

   Done. --Rschen7754 06:23, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

6. The sentence "2 miles (3 km) north of the National Forest Inn is Serpentine Drive (34.639°N 118.719°W), where the road curves around the sides of hills as it climbs out of a low point in the route (about 3200 feet/1000 m above sea level)" should be reworded so it does not begin with a numeral.

   Done. --Rschen7754 23:48, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

7. Citation needed for "and CR N2 uses the old Ridge Route to reach State Route 138 near Quail Lake."

   Fixed. --Rschen7754 09:31, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

8. The Construction section seems out of order. It talks about the road opening in 1915 then mentions the designation as US 99 in 1926 before jumping back to 1917 where it mentions the road being paved.

   I don't think such a brief deviation is an issue; histories do that all the time, even on recent FAs. --Rschen7754 21:18, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

9. The third paragraph of the Bypasses and the fate of the bypassed road section needs citations.

   Done. --Rschen7754 04:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

10. There seem to be too many pictures in the article, leading to clutter. Some of them may need to be removed.

    Done. --Rschen7754 03:03, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

11. A junction list should be added to the article, listing major junctions and possibly points of interest along the route.

    I'm a bit skeptical about this - I'm personally not a huge fan of junction lists for roads that no longer exist. --Rschen7754 07:00, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

    I must disagree. If an accurate junction list can be made of major roads when it was open, then it should definitely be added. TCN7JM 07:02, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

    But where would the mileages come from? Or the locations, for that matter, since city boundaries change? --Rschen7754 07:03, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

    Mileages are unneeded if none can be found, as I'd say that's nearly impossible for a road of this type, but is it not possible to write a note at the top of the junction list that says that the location are from the time the route was open? (Or just before it closed?) TCN7JM 07:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

    Done for major junctions. --Rschen7754 08:24, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

12. The article heavily relies on the book from Scott. Are there any other sources that can be used?

    I have some articles, as well as part of a Wikisource article; I hope to work on this soon. --Rschen7754 10:59, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

    I have now added some material. --Rschen7754 05:59, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

13. There are page numbers that are needed for some of the newspaper articles. Dough4872 17:07, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

    Page numbers added. --Rschen7754 21:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree with most of the above. It's all pretty minor stuff, even the addition of a junction list is a minor task. Just to note, after I opened this, I pinged the editor who nominated the article at FAC in 2007, and I received this reply. I would not expect any assistance from those quarters on this effort. Imzadi 1979 → 18:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: I still plan to work on this, perhaps later this summer. --Rschen7754 04:25, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Just a quick observation here... I was working on a personal project related to the lengths of roads with FAs... this article doesn't seem to give the length of the Ridge Route anywhere. Surely any article on a road should have some indication of its length. Imzadi 1979 → 18:38, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure, but the modern-day length of what is left of the road is all that is available, to my knowledge... --Rschen7754 07:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Found approximate figures. --Rschen7754 08:24, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

@Dough4872: Could you strike the ones that you think are good to go? Thanks. --Rschen7754 03:20, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Struck resolved issues. Dough4872 04:05, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

@Dough4872: All done now. --Rschen7754 06:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - The article has been improved enough that it meets the modern FA standards. Dough4872 19:47, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

@Imzadi1979: Since you nominated this, were you planning to review it? --Rschen7754 22:56, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Review by Admrboltz (including an image review)

Comments by Admrboltz

1. There is a dead link.

   Fixed. --Rschen7754 09:12, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

2. File:Map_of_USA_Ridge_Route.svg does not match our current map standards. This should be replaced with a current standard map. (GFDL/CC-BY-2.0/CC-BY-SA-1.0, 2.0, 3.0)

   Done. --Rschen7754 00:10, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

   The map you've replaced it with needs a locator inset, as if I didn't know where that was I'd be confused. --AdmrBoltz 00:17, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

   Now done. --Rschen7754 00:22, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

3. File:Ridge route map LATimes.png (PD-US-1923)
4. File:Ridge Route National Forest Inn steps.jpg (PD-User)
5. File:Ridge Route Swede's Cut.jpg (PD-User)
6. File:Beale's Cut 1872.jpg (PD-US-1923) -- I am not so sure on this one. It was snapped in 1872, but their comment says that only unpublished works before 1923 are eligable for the 120+ year after death clause. This image may need to be removed.

   [1] says the author passed away in 1977. Also according to that page, the majority of the images were unpublished, so unless we can find proof that it was published, it's probably not good. I'm pulling it from the article pending resolution. --Rschen7754 01:50, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

   According to Rschen's link, there were about 1000 images in a private collection and someone started publishing about 250 of them from 1981 to 1996. The images that that the Santa Clarita Valley Historical Society obtained in 1996 (of which this is one) were among the ~750 that were not published (note that the collection owner is not the author—the photo was taken before he was even born). It's possible that the photo was published before it became part of the collection. If that's true, then the pre-1923 rule is in effect. Otherwise, it wasn't published and the 120-year-after-creation rule applies. Thus, PD either way. —howcheng {chat} 05:38, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

   Okay, got it. I'm okay with restoring this photo to the article, but I'll wait for Admrboltz to comment. --Rschen7754 05:44, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

7. File:Ridge Route ca 1920 4.jpg (PD-Old (depreciated)) -- Image is from the 20s, however the creator is not credited, so we do not know when the creator died. The book was written in 1920, so if the book writer holds the copyright its eligible for PD-US-1923.

   I looked at the PDF of the entire book, and see no credits anywhere. However, archive.org is hosting the entire book as not in copyright... --Rschen7754 09:38, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

8. File:Ridge Route ca 1920 4.jpg (PD-User)
9. File:Lebec 1943.jpg (Fair Use) -- Does this image really help the article?

   I personally think that should be Template:PD-CAGov as no copyright is asserted, including at [2] - does this sound okay? --Rschen7754 09:38, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

   I am good with that. Send it off to Commons and CSD it here. --AdmrBoltz 16:51, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

   Now done. --Rschen7754 18:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

10. File:Dead-Man's Curve in Lebec, California, 2010.jpg (Self - GFDL/CC-BY-SA-3.0)
11. MOS wise, there are images on both sides of the page squishing text, which is to be avoided per MOS:LAYOUT#Images.

    Removed the image that did that. --Rschen7754 22:18, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

12. Do we need a citation in the lead? Can we move the citation into prose?

    Moved. --Rschen7754 09:19, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

13. There are a lot of hard-coded conversions, these should use {{convert}} or {{convert/spell}}

    Fixed. --Rschen7754 03:42, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

14. There are costs listed in the article, {{inflation}} values would be appropriate.

    Fixed. --Rschen7754 03:42, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

15. Are all the external links needed? Maybe just the first one, but I don't really see the others as being needed.

    Removed one, but the others provide additional media. --Rschen7754 18:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

    All done; still waiting for clarification on the image, but with it removed in the interim, it's not that consequential. --Rschen7754 03:42, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

• Keep --AdmrBoltz 12:51, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments by Floydian

Comments by Floydian

Overall, this is pretty up to par. However, I noticed a few issues:

• "The road enters the Angeles National Forest about one mile (1.6 km) south of Templin Highway,[14] with the Forest Service road designation 8N04. A number of establishments were located in the forest, including the National Forest Inn, Kelly's Half Way Inn, Tumble Inn, and Sandberg's Summit Hotel."
  • The last part of this paragraph needs citations. In addition, it is very short, but it looks like it would merge seamlessly with the next paragraph.
    • Moved the cite, but the last sentence sets up the next few paragraphs and doesn't need a cite. Nevertheless, I've moved it to the next paragraph.
• The paragraphs beginning "Kelly's Half Way Inn was roughly halfway..." and "The Tumble Inn..."
  • Both very short single sentence paragraphs.
    • Fixed. --Rschen7754 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
• "This Ridge Route Alternate or Ridge Alternate Highway[50]..."
  • Why the use of boldface so far down. Can this not be incorporated into the lede?
    • Fixed. --Rschen7754 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
• "It turned out that the county officially owned it but did not maintain it; Scott had since convinced the county and forest to exchange ownership with the Santa Anita Canyon Road, then a county road.[54]"
  • Awkward phrasing and tense (particularily the use of "had since")
    • Changed to has since. --Rschen7754 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
• Major intersections vs. Infobox
  • Why is SR 126 listed as the southern terminus but US 99 as the southernmost "junction" in the table? The KML leaves some mystery to this, but I'm assuming this has to do with the route US 99 took back in those days, which I-5 generally follows but not in the case of, for example, Grapevine Road at the northern terminus.
    • Fixed. --Rschen7754 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

-- Floydian ^τ _¢ 02:08, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

All done. --Rschen7754 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

• Keep - everything looks up to par in my view. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 03:51, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.