imported>Mdd at 19:15, 13 October 2008

2008-10-13T19:15:15Z

New page

{{talkarchive}} [[Category:Archive WikiProject Systems|Talk]]

Welcome at this '''archive''' of talk pages of the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems]]. This pages stores closed discussion, so pleace don't edit here. These announcements here are stored chronologically. For questions en remarks, contact [[User talk:Mdd|Mdd]].<BR><BR>

== 2007 ==
=== April 2007: The initiative ===

;20 April - WikiProject Systems initiated
On 20 April 2007 this project is initiated by [[User:Jpbowen|Jonathan Bowen]] and [[User:Mdd|Marcel Douwe Dekker]]. The cause for this step was the elimination of the [[:Category:Systems]] on 17 April 2007 from the English Wikipedia, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_11#Category:Systems]. This category contained a treasure of information with 27 subcategories and 125 articles. This had become an example for 18 other different languages, who had matching categories.

Opponents stated however, that ''the categorization of anything named a "system" … is a form of overcategorization''. The opposition lead by Jonathan Bowen gathered some support from England and Holland to Russia and Indonesia. But they couln't turn the tide. So new options were discussed and three days later, this [[WikiProject]] got started.

;25 April - Search for new [[:Category:Systems]]
On the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems#An alternative Category:Systems|talk page]] of the WikiProject Systems both speakers in favour and opponents started searching for a new [[:Category:Systems]]. This started with the protest of [[User:Jpbowen|Jonathan Bowen]] on 20 April against the delete-decision of the Wikipedia administration, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_April_20#Category:Systems_.28closed.29].

When things didn't become clearer, [[User:Mdd|Marcel Douwe Dekker]] came 23 April with a proposal for a rather theoretical new top down solution, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Systems/Archive_2#An_alternative_Category:Systems]. In the meantime Bowen had started reorganize articles in new subcategrories buttom up, with lead to a more practical solution. Today the discussion was still going on and you is still welcome to join.

;27 April - The [[:Category:Systems]] relaunched
The discussions about an alternative [[:Category:Systems]] agreed on one [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jpbowen/Draft_-_Category_Systems proposal] for a new structure for the Category Systems. After an attemped to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Systems/Archive_2#Audit_of_a_new_Category:Systems audit] this new situation, we agreed we should get the [[:Category:Systems]] relaunched, and solve new problems along the way. We agreed that this Wikipedia Systems project will monitor the new category.

In the new structure the [[:Category:Systems]] is the high level category in this field, merely for general articles about theoretical Systems priciples. For the articles about things ''called system'' new categories are created to group them, like the [[:Category:Physical systems]] and [[:Category:Conceptual systems]]. It became clear that we shouldn't group everything called a system:

''Only things that are semantically "systems" (as considered by some field of study) should be included somewhere in the hierarchy. For example, if a pop group used the word "system" in their name, it would not be appropriate...''

=== May 2007: Getting started ===

;1 May - Assessment of [[System]]s articles started
This week a first orientation started on the whole of articles in the field of [[system]]s. Hereby articles were tagged on the talk-page with a [[Template:WikiProject Systems]]. For example: the [[Talk:Donella Meadows]] is tagged with the code:

: '''<nowiki>{{WikiProject Systems|class=Start|importance=mid}}</nowiki>'''.

The first part of the code ''<nowiki>{{WikiProject Systems</nowiki>'' activates the template. In the second part you can rate the article by quality, here named ''class'', and by importance.

The ''rating of quality'' must be done according to general [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment#Grades|assesment rules]]: in short there are 6 grades or classes: ''stub, start, B, GA, A and FA''. For a ''Good Article'' (GA) grade articles have to pass a [[Wikipedia:Good article candidates|good article nomination process]]. And for A and FA grades articles have to be [[peer-review]]ed. So the grade one can give to begin with are from ''Stub'' to ''B''.

The ''rating of importance'' is an other story. You can rate the articles from ''None, Low, Mid, High'' to ''Top''. This rating is however made from a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems|WikiProject Systems]] point of view. So this important rating is relative. It tells about the importance the article has in the field of Systems. In fact, this rating tells about the place the article or category has in the ''global structure'' in field of [[Systems]], [[Systems theories]] and [[Systems scientists]].

You can help by tagging more Systems related articles in a similar way.

;6 May - More then 250 [[:Category:Systems|Systems]] article's assessed
In the past five days more then 250 article within Wikipedia are located in the field of [[system]]s and assessed. ... [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/Announcements/Archive 1#1 May: Assessment of Systems articles started|''read more'']]

;7 May - Website [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems|WikiProject Systems]] operational
This week the website of this project has become fully operational. The design itselve is based a concept from [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Turnkey Project#Foreseeable Results|Turnkey Project]], which was inspired by a French original.

The WikiProject Systems website mainpage offers most of the information that the participants need: For example the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/Announcements|announcements]], the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/Articles|directions]] for editing articles, a frequent [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/To Do List|planning]] and tools for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/Assessment|assessment]]. Furter more there is one central [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems|talk page]] for the hole project. The remaining parts of archives, articles, categories, lists and templates are just tools in the back.

The construction of the website itselve remains flexible and can be adapted to new lines of work in the project. Suggestions about this are always welcome at our Project [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems|talk page]].

;12 May - A new [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems Engineering Initiative|Systems Engineering Initiative]]
In the last week discussions started between [[User:Allan McInnes|Allan McInnes]] and [[user:Mdd|Mdd]] with help from systems engineer [[User:Truthanado|Truthanado]] to improve the [[Systems Engineering]] article. The activities in this field lead to the start of an WikiProject Systems Engineering Initiative to coordinated further common activity. ... [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems Engineering Initiative|''read more'']]

;14 May - [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Systems Category:Systems] in [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Commons]
Today a new Category Systems is created in the [[Wikimedia Commons]] website: the site where all [[copyright]] free images for the Wikipedia are stored. You can reach this categories though cross references made in the [[:category:systems]] and lower categories. Efforts are made to upload more images into these WikiCommons categories.

=== June 2007: Getting to work ===

;9 June - A [[Systems Engineering]] Makeover
A makeover of the [[Systems Engineering]] article is beeing initiated by [[User:Gnusbiz|gnusbiz]]. The discussion continues on the [[Talk:Systems engineering]] to get more structural improvement into the article.

;25 June - Assessment in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics|WikiProject Mathematics]]
After uprating the importance of the [[Chaos Theory]] article, [[User:Geometry guy|Geometry guy]] gave us some insite information about the assesment in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics|Mathematics WikiProject]]. They experienced that too many articles are getting Mid and High importance ratings compared to Top and Low. So they have been trying to improve the situation, and have developed more detailed [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/Wikipedia 1.0/Importance|importance criteria]] to work with... [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems/Archive 1#The relation between chaos theory, systems and systems theory|''read more'']]

;26 june - A [[Systems theory]] makeover
In the past two months [[User:Kenneth M Burke|Kenneth M Burke]] have rewritten the systems theory article, changing almost [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Systems/Announcements&action=edit every part]. The quality of this makeover however has been questioned, ... [[Talk:Systems_theory#This article or section needs copy editing for grammar.2C style.2C cohesion.2C tone and.2For spelling.|''read more'']]

;29 June - A [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Systems_theory Category:Systems theory] in [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Main_Page Wiktionary]
Today a new Category Systems theory is created in the [[Wiktionary]] website: This category is meant to collect a sytems related definitions in the Wikionary. A inventarisation brought the first 23 entries.

=== July 2007: Getting more structure ===

;8 July - Debora Hammond on [[Main page|Did you know]]
On 8 July 2007, the [[Template:Did you know|Did you know?]] template on the [[main page]] was updated with a fact from the new article on [[Debora Hammond]] created by [[user:Mdd|Mdd]]. It stated:

: ...that American [[systems theorist]] [[Debora Hammond]] explores new ways of thinking about [[complex systems]] that support more participatory forms of [[social organization]]?

More interesting fact from a recently created article, can be suggested on the [[Template talk:Did you know|Did you know?]] talk page.

;16 July - A [[Chaos theory]] reorganisation
The chaos theory article is the third main article in the field of systems science, that now has been restructured after the [[systems theory]] and [[systems engineering]] article. The goal of these reorganization is to harmonize these articles with each other and with the Wikipedia standaards. A discussion is started about this on the [[Talk:Chaos theory#A reorganisation of this article|Chaos theory]] talk page.

;16 July - Ralph W. Gerard on [[Main page|Did you know]]
On 16 July 2007, the [[Template:Did you know|Did you know?]] template on the [[main page]] was updated with a fact from the article [[Ralph W. Gerard]] created by [[user:Mdd|Mdd]]. It stated:

:...that the American [[neurophysiologist]] '''[[Ralph W. Gerard]]''' developed an intracellular [[Electrophysiology|recording microelectrode]], that revolutionized research in [[neurobiology]]?

More interesting fact from a recently created article, can be suggested on the [[Template talk:Did you know|Did you know?]] talk page.

;19 July - New systems categories
In the past month four more top categories have been created by [[user:Mdd|Mdd]] and [[User:Jpbowen|Jonathan Bowen]]. These categories are:
: [[:Category:Systems scientists]],
: [[:Category:Systems science literature]],
: [[:Category:Systems sciences organizations]] and
: [[:Category:Systems science]].
... [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems#New systems science categories|''read more'']]

=== August 2007: Exploring further improvement ===

;7 August - Systems articles need attention
More the 60 articles in the field of [[systems]] and [[systems science]] are in need of immediate attention, ... [[:Category:Systems articles needing attention|''see further'']]

;15 August - Makeover of systems articles
This month an intitiative started by [[User:Mdd|Mdd]] to bring all mayor article in the field of systems up to the same standard lay out. These standards differ slightly for certain types of articles: thematical or biographical; longer, shorter or stub; article or category. An important target of these recreation is on the one hand to get the articles readily accessible. And on the other hand to create space in articles for further development.

;27 August - A Systems science Portal
A start has been made with a [[Portal:Systems science]]. The portal templates are designed, the first content is stored and the portal is activated. Now the portal is in need of some more information from the field. Everybody can contribute by mominating or creating selected articles, pictures, systems scientists and "did you know" statements.

=== September 2007: A new ball game ===

;18 September - Urgent articles improved
In the past month almost all of the more then 60 articles, that needed urgent attention last month, have been corrected and brought up to a basic acceptable level. Now a new ball game can start improving current articles and fill in blanks by creating new articles. If you find any systems related article in a poor state that needing urgent attention, please tag it with the message ''|attention=yes'' in the WikiProject banner or let us know on the WikiSystems talk page.

;25 September - WikiProject Cybernetics
In the Wikipedia field of cybernetics the idea has been brought up for a WikiProject Cybernetics and a Portal:Cybernetics. These ideas are also posted on the [http://hermes.gwu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind0709&L=cybcom&D=0&H=0&O=T&T=1 CYBCOM] Cybernetics Discussion Group. There seems to be little response, yet. If you have any ideas about this, please let us know ... [[Talk:Cybernetics#Wikipedia:WikiProject Cybernetics and Portal:Cybernetics|''See further''.]]

=== October 2007: Moving on ===

;8 October" - A new [[:Category:Systems ecology]]
Around the [[systems ecology]] article a new [[:Category:Systems ecology]] is created. Hereby four subcategories and 35 articles are determined as close related. And among those four persons are determined as systems ecologists. If you have more information or doubts, please let us know. You can also classify more article into the new [[:Category:Systems ecology]].

=== November 2007: Moving on ===

;16 November - Fighting Vandalism remains
Things are going a bit slower lately but the fighting vandalism remains. Every day at least ten article within the scope of systems get vandalized. An article like [[ecosystem]] is very popular and gets vandalized almost daily. We try to fight it where we can, by putting these articles on our watchlist and check all recent changes daily. If you find an article in the field of WikiProject that isn´t checked regularly, please let us know.

== 2008 ==
=== Winter 2008 ===

;8 January - Systems Science Portal in the Science portalbar
The [[Portal:Systems science]] has recently been grouped in the [[Template:Science portalbar|Science portalbar]] template, which is placed above multiple science portals. On this occasion [[user:Mdd|Marcel Douwe Dekker]] has started extending the portals content.

=== Spring 2008 ===

;4 March - Systems Science Portal extended
The Systems Science Portal is further extended. It now introduces 10 of the most excellent picture, 10 images and 10 systems scientists. If you have more suggestions, please let us know on the [[Portal talk:Systems science|''here'']]

;15 March - Wikipedia article traffic statistics
A new tool the [http://stats.grok.se/en/200802/Systems_theory Wikipedia article traffic statistics] seems to give an interesting view on the popularity of the systems articles. With this tool sevreal listings have been made of number of views in systems articles in february 2008, see [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems#Wikipedia article traffic statistics|''here'']].

;21 March - Systems science portal promotion
On top of several systems science article a tag has been placed with a
link to the [[Portal:Systems science]]. This step is temporary to make
some promotion for the portal itselve.

;25 March - Systems art on [[Main page|Did you know]]
On 25 July 2008, the [[Template:Did you know|Did you know?]] template on the [[main page]] was updated with a fact from the new article on [[Systems art]] created by [[user:Mdd|Mdd]]. It stated:

:''Did you konw ...that '''[[systems art]]''' is an [[art movement]] from the 1960s influenced by [[systems theory]], which reflects on natural systems, social systems and social signs of the [[art world]] itself?''

More interesting fact from a recently created article, can be suggested on the [[Template talk:Did you know|Did you know?]] talk page.

;2 April - A [[Systems psychology]] article
All developments in the field of [[systems psychology]] are collected and brought to you in the new systems psychology article.

;7 April - Systems science on YouTube
On [[YouTube]] an initiative has been started by [[User:Mdd|Mdd]] to collect movies on YouTube about systems, systems science and systems scientists. See [http://nl.youtube.com/group/systemsscience ''here''].

;12 April - New Systems scientists categories
In the past month two new Systems Science categories have been created for [[:category:systems biologists|Systems biologists]] and for [[:Category:Systems ecologists|Systems ecologists]]. There are further plans for a ''Category:Social systems scientists'' and a ''Category:Systems psychologists''.

;22 April - New control theorists category
There is a new [[:Category:Control theorists]] for researchers in control theory.

=== Summer 2008 ===

;1 July - Jacques Bertin on [[Main page|Did you know]]
On I July 2008, the [[Template:Did you know|Did you know?]] template on the [[main page]] was updated with a fact from the new article on [[Jacques Bertin]] created by [[user:Mdd|Marcel Douwe Dekker]]. It stated:
:''Did you know ... that French cartographer [[Jacques Bertin]] was the first to provide a theoretical foundation to [[Information Visualization]]?''

=== Autumn 2008 ===

;16 Sept - Mathematical diagram on [[Main page|Did you know]]
On 16 Sept 2008, the [[Template:Did you know|Did you know?]] template on the [[main page]] was updated with a fact from the new article on [[Systems art]] created by [[user:Mdd|Marcel Douwe Dekker]]. It stated:

:''Did you know ... that despite the long-established use of [[mathematical diagram]]s ([[Voronoi diagram]] pictured), going back to the Ancient Greeks, the scientific study of them has only recently begun?''

;24 Sept - Béla H. Bánáthy on [[Main page|Did you know]]
On 24 Sept 2008, the [[Template:Did you know|Did you know?]] template on the [[main page]] was updated with a fact from the new article on [[Systems art]] created by [[user:Btphelps|Btphelps]]. It stated:

:''Did you know ... that systems scientist Béla H. Bánáthy conceived of a conference where all attendees present papers, and the conference itself is an in-depth, extended conversation between all participants?''

MyWiki:WikiProject Systems/Announcements/Archive 1 - Revision history

imported>Mdd at 19:15, 13 October 2008